Yoga Conference.21.0
earthworm (earthworm, 10/26/98 1:20:04 PM)

There are many who are just getting started on the yoga
path and may be interested in the basics, as they say. 
I find that putting an asana (posture) practice into 
context is helpful for deepening my understanding of 
why I am choosing yoga.

Questions having to do with a classical or contextual 
perspective on the philosophical, historical and 
religious origins of yoga are very appropriate for this
topic.

Erich began his Sunday Morning Rocky Mountain Yoga 
Journal Conference class with an explanation of the 
origins of yoga that shed great light on his teachings.
  

"In the early days when yoga was first being developed,
the primary practice was meditation, or centering. The 
poses (asanas) came later as spontaneous expressions of
that centered state. In combination these became the 
"royal practice'' because the ancients had found that 
through the discipline of yoga and quiet sitting they 
were able to access a new way of knowing and being and 
thereby become more intuitive and effective in all they
were guided to do. This, they discovered, was the most 
direct way of experiencing firsthand the meaning of 
God, Guru, and Self."


For more about The Royal Practice go to 
<http://www.movingintostillness.com/royal.htm>

Since then yoga has grown, like a tree, into many 
branches which reflect different variations of 
practice.  The following brief explanations can be 
found in a Dorling Kindersley, Sivananda Yoga Vedanta 
Center Book called Yoga, Mind and Body.


Yoga is a way of life, an integrated system of 
education for the body, mind, and inner spirit. This 
art of right living was perfected and practiced in 
India thousands of years ago but, since Yoga deals with
univeral truths, its teachings are as valid today as 
they were in ancient times.  Yoga is a practical aid, 
not a religion, and its techniques may be practiced by 
Buddhists, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and 
atheists alike.  Yoga is union with all.

The above is for reference only.  It is not the last 
word nor the best on the subject by any means.  It is 
meant to be  a beginning.  ie., The above lacks a 
description of Tantric Yoga.  

I find Erich's return to the roots the the yoga tree 
true to the heart and intention of yoga.  Perhaps the 
branches are not meant to be perched upon but are there
as a beginning to a journey to the Source of All, the 
intention of all spiritual paths.

Namaste, Gena

1 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.1
Roots (crotalus, 10/26/98 4:01:09 PM)

It all seems to make some sense (particularly the gross
divisions of yoga), even a ways up the tree. But when 
you get to the leaves, this aspiring yogi (snort - 
there's that desire stuff again) finds himself falling 
out of the tree.

I notice Ms. Lasater in the 11-12/98 Yoga Journal says 
that despite being enjoined to "take the yamas as the 
great vow to be practiced all the time" by Chp2/Vs30, 
she says work on 'em one at a time.  I think I'll do 
some asanas instead.

Cool topic Gena.

2 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.2
earthworm (earthworm, 10/27/98 11:46:24 AM)

For an article by Georg Feuerstein called Forty Types 
of Yoga go to 
http://members.aol.com/yogaresrch/forty.htm.  

His book The Yoga Tradition: Its History, Literature, 
Philosophy, and Practice will be available in 
mid-November and I have been told that it is rich for 
beginners and advanced students alike.  I plan to 
purchase my copy in November.

Namas te, Gena

3 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.3
Bob Cox (crotalus, 11/12/98 7:43:35 AM)

Try out Joel Kramer for What Is Yoga

4 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.4
Yoga & Carpal Tunnel (SuZie Coyote, 12/22/98 9:42:23 AM)

One of my students brought in an article today from 
JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association).  
The article documented the results of a randomized 
trial to determine the effectiveness of a yoga-based 
regimen for relieving symptoms of carpal tunnel 
syndrome.  (The study, BTW, was paid for by a grant 
from the the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania).

Participants in the study performed 11 yoga postures 
designed for strengthening, stretching, and balancing 
each joint in the upper body along with relaxation.   
They did two sessions per week (1 to 1 ½ hours) for 
eight weeks – classroom environment, only one 
instructor.  Patients in the control group were offered
a wrist splint to supplement their current treatment.  

The poses (taken from Iyengar) were:

1. Dandasana (Sitting on chair with trunk upright, 
pressing hands into the seat and moving shoulder blades
up and down.  
2. Namaste (Fingers spread as widely as possible, 
moving to hyper-extension of the fingers).
3. Urdhva Hastasana (Arms extended overhead)
4. Parvatasana Arms extended overhead with fingers 
interlocked)
5. Garudasana (Arms interlocked in front of body – arms
only)
6. Bharadvajasana (Chair twists)
7. Tadasana
8. Uttanasana (Half only – to a wall)
9. Virabhadrasana I (Arms only)
10. Urdvha Mukha Svanasana (Palms on seat of a chair)
11. Namaste (Behind Back)
12. Savasana (Relaxation)

Subjects in the yoga groups had significant improvement
over the control groups in grip strength, and pain 
reduction.  The study’s conclusion was that a 
yoga-based regimen was more effective than wrist 
splinting or no treatment in relieving some symptoms 
and signs of carpal tunnel syndrome.  

Only 42 people were studied (with 67 problem wrists), 
and it was a one-time study.  Further system studies 
would have to be done to conclusively prove merit.

5 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.5
Erich Schiffmann (schiffmann, 12/22/98 11:24:36 PM)

Thanks for that, SuZ. That's a nice sequence. How are 
you, by the way? I just got back  from a week on Maui, 
mmmm

6 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.6
earthworm (earthworm, 12/23/98 8:03:13 PM)

Welcome back Erich.  Maui's weather is probably a bit 
warmer than here in Minnesota.  We got up to 15°F 
today, that puts the F in Frosty.  We won't be dreamin'
of a White Christmas because we've got our Winter 
Wonderland.  

For everyone: A wish from me, to you and yours, for a 
very Merry Christmas.

Gena

7 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.7
Erich Schiffmann (schiffmann, 12/24/98 1:47:12 AM)

Maui was great. Worked on my tan, did yoga on the 
beach, and drove to Honolua Bay to watch the surfers. 
Saw a few whales 

Hope you're having fun!

8 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.8
Message from Ganga re Kramer (tympanachus cupido, 1/6/99 12:20:33 PM)

Subject: Kramer
   Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:54:20 -0800
   From: Ganga White <ganga@whitelotus.org>
     To: Cox@rmi.net


        The articles are all up on our re designed web 
page.  If you want to announce or make a link to them 
on Erich's page, please feel free.  We are going to 
continue to facelift and improve our site over the next
few weeks. Want to improve the colors, graphics and 
navigation.  Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thank you so much for your help.

PS the spirituality article is still in process and 
make become a small book.  But we hope to have 
something ready for first blush in a couple months.

much love,

g.

===================================================
Ganga White
White Lotus Foundation
2500 San Marcos Pass
Santa Barbara, CA 93105

tel.  805.964.1944
fax  805.964.9617
Web:     http://www.whitelotus.org/
Email     ganga@whitelotus.org

9 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.9
Hasya Yoga (YogaSuz, 1/14/99 12:20:56 PM)

Here's an interesting style of yoga:

10 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.10
Heh (tympanachus cupido, 1/15/99 7:56:58 AM)

11 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.11
Continuation of #315 in ASANA TOPIC (Shakti Das, 7/9/99 3:19:33 PM)

There seems to be some confusion about what constitutes
authentic yoga and whether or not this realm of 
apparent contradiction, paradox, or duality is endemic or 
rather is it the result of simply "wrong thinking" i.e., imposing
a dualistic western framework on what is essentially a 
wholistic eastern yoga system (sort of shooting ourselves
in the foot). Thus 'd like to present a different 
perspective (than the more common dualistic Western 
perspective us Westerner's are bombarded with) based on 
the classic idea of hatha yoga as being a system in 
which to raise the kundalini.  

There exist no paradoxes except what the ordinary 
conditioned "mind" creates. It is this mind that insists upon
paradoxes or contradiction such as insisting upon 
imbalance. This insistence is simply a conditioned/acquired
way of looking at reality (vritti) wherein this mind has 
become inflexible, hardened, and intolerant of entertaining"
new perspectives" because of fixed beliefs. In yoga, there is
no separation between the mind and body -- in other words 
there exists a non-exclusive unity which incorporates 
them both. There is no paradox there. In yoga there is a 
non-exclusive unity between left brain and right brain 
function and this does not have to be an either or 
imbalance or mismatch. There is no war between logic and 
intuition unless the mind insists upon it (out of being 
carried away by kleshas and avidya).

Likewise, health can be a side effect (result) of yoga, which 
is a more wholistic practice than being merely health 
goal oriented, but authentic yoga is much more than 
simply physical health. In one sense the brain, nervous 
system, endocrines, etc are simply body parts and 
reclaiming responsibility to activate their latent 
functionality can be adjunctive to the real goal of 
yoga (agaian which is not health). Perhaps what we are saying
is that many people may be confused about what the 
purpose of yoga is, nicht wahr? If it is simply health than
they are entitled to try that and see if that works for
them, but the "paradox" exists only because people have not 
thought out deeply enough what and why they are doing 
yoga. Now of course they are free not to think at all 
also (just do it and enjoy it) and this way the paradox 
would disappear as well (but in a different way if you 
get my point.  

In the end all animals decompose and the physical form 
goes back to the earth (including humans). The only spiritual
failure is in not living your life fully to its highest
creative potential and to some extent this does depend 
upon a certain am,ount of bodily function, but I do not see
the contradiction where spiritual accomplishment is 
dependent upon physical health or physical health isis 
dependent upon spiritual accomplishment other than in a"
belief system" or conditioned mind that is attached to 
this type of duality.

Thus we can teach asanas to people for health such as 
is done in Pune at the Iyengar Institute where there is
intensive daily yoga physical therapy given for the 
people of Pune free as seva by the Iyengar family, we can
teach yoga for MS (see The Yoga Journal article somewhere
in 1997), my wife taught asana for AIDs patients, a very dear friend 
teaches yoga for CP and other severely challenged 
children, and there are many other "health" reasons and 
beneficial applications of asana taught by many people (
see for instance www.specialyoga.com ) but there I see no contradiction/paradox, conflict, or war 
going on here.

In one sense we are all disabled (suffering from a 
repressed kundalini). Here all hatha yoga (hatha yoga being 
the yoga science that uses asana practice as one of its
major modalities but not exclusively) scriptures agree (
that the purpose is to realize this evolutionary energy). 
The fact is that many people do this better sitting in 
a wheel chair than some one who can walk but drinks 
beer all day and beats her dog. Raising the kundalini 
involves the inclusive unity of the body, mind, emotions, 
energy body, belief system i.e., the synchronization and 
alignment of the annumaya, pranamaya, mano maya and vijnana
maya koshas with the anandamaya kosha (at least according
to  standard yoga philosophy). Simply when they mesh we are
in creative flow, synch, and balance and when they are out 
of synch we are in conflict, tension, imbalance, 
contradiction, duality, friction, and all the other anomalies
of the vrittis including the kleshas and the vyadhis (
disease) are perpetuated and fed. Again its the conditioned
mind that makes things appear complex, while at the same 
time I do not advocate getting rid of it (as in the 
absurd example above) which creates more imbalance in the
long run, but rather placing it in balance and harmony 
with the innate intelligence which often manifests as 
intuition and instinct. When these are in synch (ida nd 
pingala) the kundalini is honored and flows in the 
central column and there is where all dualities are 
dissolved and where are joyous center is established 
without any contradiction. 

Then, it seems to me (if this ancient assumption of hatha 
yoga is accepted, that it simply is up to the individual 
practitioner if he/she wants to use their time alloted 
for practice for strictly health reasons or to activate
the kundalini, or to simply stretch "for whatever mindless 
reason", but I wanted to offer this classical perspective (as
it is the one that I personally like the most as well) 
which to me seems to explain away the "apparent" conflict 
or contradictions?

To me the asana practice is joyful because of this 
integration as it is a coming into synergistic balance 
and synchronization which I can feel in the unity which
is inclusive of the body, the mind, nature, all other beings, 
and their timeless Source while it is my deep prayer 
that I become less distracted from this "reality" through 
expedient practice so that I do not even have to "
practice" any more to exist here.

Here I connect up with not only the disowned parts of  
my body, not by embracing a paradigm which separates body
and mind, but by embracing a disowned part of my feelings
and mind which also has become fragmented. disowned, and 
repressed. Here I embrace a disowned part of "I" which exists
as an integral part within all of nature as  a result 
of this glorious intelligent energy of evolution 
emanating throughout creation from the Source and thus 
I celebrate Source and Integrity whole heartedly and 
spontaneously (without inhibitions) as one process of an 
inclusive wholistic yogic  practice. No religion or 
ideology in that is there?



namaste

12 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.12
Bob Cox (tympanachus cupido, 7/10/99 9:50:46 AM)

I like the notion that through our practice we are 
retrieving a natural integrated state rather than 
aspiring to it.  More a case of shedding impediments 
rather than acquiring facility?

13 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.13
Natural and Self Existing (Shakti Das, 7/10/99 12:39:09 PM)

Yes, so often outsiders view yoga as something contrived, 
unnatural, "forced", and even self abusive, but in Patanjali and "
most" of the ancient hatha and tantric scriptures the 
description of this state is unconditioned, natural, wild, 
and original whose realization is accomplished by 
natural joy and even bliss (thus putting an end to 
suffering which stems from its veiling). 

This natural state as the goal not only seems to 
correspond to Patanjali, hatha yoga, and Tantra but also to
Zen, Taoism, and dzogchen although I am not ignoring that 
there also exists a camp who is adamant in their "view/
interpretation" that this spiritual process must be 
forced and antagonistic (being the opposite of release 
and mutuality). 

In my view then it is nature (shakti) who instructs and
when we listen we are able to integrate. This integration
is naturally empowering as we connect up to our true or
natural Self, true nature, and/or original nature (before the 
veiling (conditioning) where pure subjectivity and pure 
objectivity exist in a synergistic both/and mutual unity 
in an all inclusive "reality" which  embraces them both 
without contradiction.  

Here there is nothing to do at all (once we have created 
the stage merging the left brain with the right), but 
simply let go of the excess baggage that we most often 
carry with us in the form of character armoring, fear, 
desire, memories, false beliefs, negative emotions, etc (all of 
which having Sanskrit names which we will not detail). So 
by simply letting go (vairaga), we create space and thus 
commune (surrender to this more complete identification 
as ishvara pranidhana), which produces Sat Chit Ananda.  It 
is this "letting go" into the natural joyful state which 
often requires effort which the sadhana (yoga practice) is 
designed to effect. It is necessary because of our strong
attachments toward the conditioned patterns self abuse 
and ignorance.

All this is produced by the relationship between 
consciousness and being, crown and root, sky and earth. left 
and right, pingala/ida, etc. When this relationship is in 
synchronization then a third (both/and non-dual core energy
shift occurs (the energy flows in the central column or 
sushumna) and we become a natural extension of the 
evolutionary creative energy with no strain, inhibition, 
conflict, or stress but rather we abide in a natural, 
spontaneous, inside out, self animating intelligent spirit 
filled communion of body, mind, breath, emotions, nature, 
creation, creativity, and Source as one integrated self 
actualizing bundle. 

So it seems that yoga gives us a taste of this process 
or perhaps only a reminder (because we have forgotten it). 
Then we learn through more intelligent conscious and 
loving practice how to effect it more -- what works and 
what does not -- based on this inner way of knowing (prajna) 
thus the self effulgence gradually unfolds as this deep
inter-connection (which is what yoga joins) organically 
increases in its depth and continuity into all aspects 
of our life without fragmentation/corruption.

14 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.14
kevin wood (sahaj, 7/10/99 4:53:56 PM)

Thanks for clarifying the that the question I asked is 
the idea of a contradiction between the
body and spirit (which is ignorance to the reality of
their unity.)  I think you are right, Donny, and I
am sure you would agree that
the dualist mind is human phenomenon.  The western
mind is simply less integrated and more divided
today than ever before.  These systems of yoga
were designed to reintegrate all the aspects of
ourselves possibly at a time when people were
more integrated than today.  Maybe this is why
 Ma has made these teaching available, no longer
a secret only for adepts and serious spiritual
practicioners.  Which is also its demise from the
original purity.  It is up to us to convey the
deeper aspects of yoga to ourselves and students (as our 
limited understanding  allows) to lift the awareness of 
the true reason for yoga practice.

15 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.15
Donny Simon (Shakti Das, 7/10/99 5:59:52 PM)

Many good points Kevin,

Just to clarify when you say: "I am sure you would agree 
that the dualist mind is human phenomenon" I agree in a 
qualified way in so far that it is a human aberration (
not necessarily a natural human necessity, but rather the
human malaise which can be remediated through 
functional yoga).

Yes, the task (which I try to maintain as a continuous 
energetic in daily life)is the unification and 
integration of spirit and nature, consciousness and being, 
crown and root chakra, mind and body, pingala and ida, 
efferent and afferent, sun and moon, and so forth and this 
synchronization or alignment is a gradual awakening 
process which I know that you feel deeply and are 
working toward its completion (odf course IT is already 
complete, but "we all" still have some residual 
de-conditioning of the body/mind to work on)! (:-) and that manifests
simply as the kleshas, vasanas, samskaras, or more simply as 
the vrittis. When it starts to "appear" complex., I know that the
dualistic mind is at work and take it as a signal to 
ground myself with MA and center. This is what yogi Bob 
calls putting your chin on straight, I believe.

Granted the constellations have moved and certain 
teachings and pathways are made available today, that 
were previously blocked (were in evolution) but I still 
think we need a certain amount of bhakti, dedication, love, 
devotion, and/or focus (call it what you like) to see us 
through. Without this "love" (and concommitent willingness to 
shed the dysfunctional attachments) then complete 
realization will be impeded. Since Patanjali was not a 
religionist, I feel that the closest that he came to 
describing this was vairaga and ishvara pranidhana (
although he did have a lot to say about swadhyaya (
relentless self study), abhyasa (continued practice), and tapas (
the cultivation of spiritual passion and heat) which are 
also closely aligned. 

In other words it is not that will and intellect need 
to be abandoned, but rather they must be placed in 
harmony with Divine will and consciousness. Or if we do 
not want to use the word Divine will we can say Source 
and Universal Motive of the Heart; while  in place of 
Divine consciousness we could say the innate 
Intelligent Source of creativity, creation, and evolution. 
Aligned and synchronized with that, we need not make any 
distinction between pingala and ida, sun and moon, right 
and left because they are no longer corrupted (in the 
illusion of being isolated parts existing in some 
imaginary vacuum by an intellectual or artificial 
contrivance imposed upon "Reality-As-It-Is) or perhaps more
simply put upon Our True Nature. 

So, yes, as yoga teachers I think that is extraordinarily 
valuable to acknowledge and share the spiritual goal of
yoga and study its history as best we can. Eventually we 
learn that this history is available in our own 
practice and the previously hidden teachings in the 
books become so revealed (through our own self 
understanding of the process); yet at the same we can see 
that what was called yoga was a work in progress -- 
evolving functional and relevant remedies for the 
cultural (time/space) conditioning of the era and country.

This seemed to me to have peaked just at the beginning 
of the time of the Western invasions and their 
tremendous cultural imposition upon India. Now, 650 years later, it
is time for the "practice" of yoga to evolve even further, 
but not as a reaction to the past, but as its natural 
extension; and I think we are witnessing the "signs" of this 
awakening in the embrace of somatic psychology, 
neo-Reichian therapy, deep ecology, body based 
psychotherapy, green psychology, the plethora of movement 
therapies (such as BMC, Feldenkrais, Alexander, authentic 
movement, dance therapy, Continuum, etc), psycho-immunology, stress
reduction programs, some neo-tantric approaches, etc. That 
they all point to a common paradigm is clear to me, and I
have confidence is becoming increasingly clear to more 
humans which promises to be able to herald in a mass 
awakening where MA is necessarily honored in all phases
of our life including our economics, agriculture, 
governments, education systems, health systems, criminal 
justice systems, education, etc. After all how much more mass
ignorance can the planet afford? 

Granted before, those dedicated to yoga were few and far 
between (mostly living in the forest hermitages or 
mountains), but given modern democracies a mass 
non-hierarchal awakening is necessary and it will come 
naturally as long as it is preceded by consciousness -- as 
long as it is created by people who have become 
awakened, honor, acknowledge, and rest in their heart 
consciousness (something I expect all true yogis are 
joyously working toward. Simply I feel that the success 
of the "human experiment" actually depends on this.    

But then again I was reminded of this from Krishnamurti
today; "Fear comes into being when I desire to be in a 
particular pattern. To live without fear means to live 
without a particular pattern. When I demand a particular 
way of living that in itself is a source of fear."

Namaste!

16 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.16
Suzanne (YogaSuz, 7/12/99 8:53:38 AM)

Donny,

Thanks for your 2 cents. I love yoga and do it because I 
love it. Still, lately, I wonder if it is a good idea to 
reach for the attainment of harder and harder poses, 
which is naturally appealing to my sense of competition
with myself and others, of challenging myself, and of just 
doing the practice to raise up energy. Can't I just raise
up energy by doing certain poses that aren't 
necessarily hard? Why go for scorpion pose? I think that 
you are correct that the idea of doing yoga for health 
purposes is the same conflict as above. 

You are right that there is no conflict actually, but yet
I see lots of contradictions in different styles of 
yoga and their approaches. Perhaps I am just too 
goal-directed?

Suzanne

17 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.17
Bob Cox (tympanachus cupido, 7/12/99 10:50:57 AM)

As I understand it, all the poses are useful. Getting them 
right makes them more useful. I keep going back to 
Erich's good advice [see below] when I ask myself these 
kinds of questions, Suzanne. My practice seems to be 
regulated by IM and my body-mind-spirit needs of the 
moment.  New stuff comes from reading and listening to 
others' reports of how they have found the poses/
practices useful.


Yoga is a way of moving into stillness in order to 
experience the truth of who you are. The practice of yoga
is the practice of meditation - or inner listening - in the
poses and meditations, as well as all day long.  It's a 
matter of listening inwardly for guidance all the time, 
and then daring enough and trusting enough to do as you
are prompted to do...

18 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.18
Reaching for the Present Moment (sue6, 7/12/99 11:07:45 AM)

Bob...

Thanks for posting Erich's comment.  I start a 6 week 
beginning class for seniors today.  Great quote to start 
the session!  

Suzanne...

I used to be really goal oriented, maybe the first 2 years 
of my practice.  Then something started to "shift" mostly my 
thoughts about yoga.  Now, I'm only interested in how I 
feel in the pose.  Am I here, totally aware...or am I thinking 
about the laundry piling up!  :)  I think you CAN draw up the
energy in every pose, whether it's "easy" or "hard".  It's the 
attention we bring to it.  

Namaste!
Sue

19 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.19
earthworm (earthworm, 7/12/99 11:29:02 AM)

And then there is the "doing laundry" asana when done with 
devotion, grace, attention and love.  Is it a chore or is it 
yoga????

20 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.20
Erich Schiffmann (schiffmann, 7/12/99 11:36:36 AM)

I like doing the dishes.

21 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.21
Raising the Energy! (Shakti Das, 7/12/99 2:14:58 PM)

Glad to see all the activity here this past week after 
six months of stagnation!

I have found that before I started doing yoga practices
such as asana and meditation, my life was very different. 
Indeed even today, I find especially when living in the 
city versus in the country intentional practice is even
more valuable. If I delude myself that I am too no longer
need them and try to cut some of them out, what happens 
is that I am not any where as energized and centered. 
Likewise when my practice is ramped up, my life is 
happier and more creative. Now by ramped up, I do not mean 
left brain dominant, but neither do I mean right brain 
dominant either. It is exactly as you say. The energy is 
simply increased and raised and I feel more in touch, 
light, buoyant, animated, and alive! I like that feeling! 

I'll grant that some people feel that they do not need 
to do asanas, meditation, pranayama, yoga, etc to feel good. As a
matter of fact such has always been the more common 
situation, so without being "judgemental"  proposing that 
more people "Should" or "Should not" get involved with yoga 
practice, I will allow for the fact that this is simply 
my own predilection or karma i.e.,  that I have always liked 
hatha yoga and feel a strong connection to it, while 
acknowledging that it isn't for everyone. 

In my experience some degree of effort has to be made 
and Grace can thus be increased (taking a step toward the
mountain, the mountain takes a step toward us] and thus the
confused perspective of Grace being in opposition to 
will seems to be another useless contradiction. Thus in 
India there is a strong distinction made by the general
populace between merely devotional practice [bhakti] and 
yoga practice [not that yoga is only will power but that 
it also contains this element]. This also does not mean 
that yoga is devoid of bhakti either. 

So, Sue6 I agree,  Hatha yoga is simply that [raising our 
energy], and all the hatha yoga scriptures say exactly that(
even Mr. Iyengar says it too]  i.e., that the purpose of the 
practice is to raise [draw up] the kundalini [energy]. Now once 
you taste what that means, then you are in your own 
senso-meter/prana-meter and your own inner guidance has 
been activated. This being an evolutionary energy it is 
always evolving in the physical form, yet it comes from 
the unconditioned Source. 

Here though we are not saying that it is the prana to 
be drawn up at the expense of the apana [downward moving 
energy] nor are we saying that this is not anything other
than synergistic balance where the synchronization of 
the two produce flow or shift into the central channel 
or core [thus distinguishing it as a raising of the 
kundalini energy].

That is why kundalini raising is non-dual i.e., it is neither
only earth nor only sky, muladhara or crown, ida or pingala, 
but it exists only in the central non-dual pathway that
links the two [the sushumna]. 

Suzanne, indeed you are right, there are contradictions in 
the various Western schools which do appear to be goal 
oriented, but that is only because they are where they 
are at and your eyes have now evolved to a "perspective" 
that can see their own contradictions and the dramas 
that they are unconsciously working through. 

Suzanne, in a post last week you asked me to list  the 
yoga tradition source books that deal with the chakras 
and kundalini. I will do so now with two qualifications. 
One that these are merely source books that are to be 
used in conjunction with your own inner wisdom [in order 
to bring it out] rather than as "external" authoritative 
texts. 

The second qualification is about terminology and the 
use of language to communicate rather than to confuse 
or disempower. Hence I think it is valuable to point out 
that the word, chakra, is a Sanskrit term (not Western], thus any
books or theories about chakras must be in accordance 
with this tradition. Now if we talk about other energy 
vortexes in the body that is not in accordance with 
this tradition, then by definition they can not be called
chakras, without corruption setting in.

It does not mean that western energy systems are 
invalid, nor does it mean that some of them can not be 
co-related to what is defined by the Sanskrit word 
chakra in the hatha yoga traditions, but simply that this
specific word has meaning in a specific ancient and 
well defined tradition which is useful as a word for 
communications purposes only when it is kept in context, 
but when a words meaning becomes arbitrarily changed 
then words can start to create confusion instead. In 
other words, I am not saying that Western authors are 
wrong or right, but for clarity's sake [which I am trying 
to adhere to] I have always suggested  that if they wish 
to invent their own system that they invent appropriate
words to describe them and I will not repeat or feed 
these type of mis-appropriations. I tried to be 
consistent in the more recent mis-use of the classical 
word ashtanga yoga as it is applied now in the West to 
P. Jois' system of vinyasa yoga for the same reasons, 
because it is already too easy to be confused about 
what yoga is about and such confusion in basic terms 
only add to the apparent contradictions which after all
is part of the problem rather than the solution.

I have already mentioned the "Hatha Yoga Pradipika" and a 
web site that contains one translation on the Yoga 
Anatomy topic. This reference book on hatha yoga, kundalini, 
asana, mudra, bandha, pranayama, meditation, etc is usually dated
anywhere between the 14th and 16th century. It is also translated
by the Bihar School of Yoga, the Intl. Sivananda Yoga 
Center, and a few other sources. The Bihar School's 
commentary is the most extensive. It is highly 
recommended.

Likewise the "Gheranda Samhita" contains similar material 
and is usually dated to be somewhat later than the 
Hatha Yoga Pradipika perhaps in the latter 17th century. 
Again there are many translations available.

The "Siva Samhita" is also a very authoritative text on 
Hatha Yoga which contains most of the same material and
can be dated around the same period as the Hatha Yoga 
Pradipka. There is only one English translation available
that I know. 

I also have the Yoga Upanishads, the Hatharatnavalai, the 
Satkarmahsangraha, Brhadyogiyajnavalkyasmriti, the Goraksa 
Sataka, Goraksa Paddhati [a translation is found in Georg 
Feurstein's the "Yoga Tradition"], and some others all of which
contain very good hatha yoga instruction on the chakras, 
kundalini, pranayama, mudra, theory, etc., but they are mostly more
difficult to obtain. 

Regarding the Yoga Upanishads, Jeanne Varenne, has a book 
with many translations from the Yoga Upanishads called "
Yoga and the Hindu Tradition" and can be gotten from 
Amazon.com . In addition Swami Sivananda's book on 
Kundalini Yoga contains a translation of the Yoga 
Kundalini Upanishad in the appendix [which is one of the 
Yoga Upanishads]. The translation of the complete Yoga 
Upanishads that I have is from the Theosophical 
Publishing House in Adyar India and has long been out 
of print (not a great translation either]. 

As mentioned before, http://www.hubcom.com/tantric/  has the translations of a few great hatha texts attributed to 
Matsyendranath and Goraknath as well as much on the 
tantras. Also Amazon.com may be able to get "Gorakhnath and 
the Kanphata Yogis", by George W. Briggs, but it is currently 
out of print. 

Most of these books of course are neither popular nor 
are they carried by mainstream book suppliers [not 
available on amazon.com] but they are none-the-less 
authentic yoga study material (for those interested in 
the evolution and history of the authentic practices. 
Some of these translations are availble at Motilal 
Benarsidas Publishers in New Delhi, http://www.mlbd.com/ which is a major distributor as well.

The above books agree pretty much to the chakras, 
kundalini theory, pranayama, asana, mudra, bandha, laya, meditation, 
and kriya practices, but there of course are some 
differences and quite a lack of detailed instruction in
many areas. 

To counterpose this hatha yoga tradition, the tantric 
traditions will differ some what as to the chakras but 
really not very much. Lastly, the Indian Buddhist tradition[
preserved mostly in Tibet] is also extremely similar but 
will use different names for ida and pingala, kundalini, 
and the chakras. I believe that they are basically 
variants of the same basic teachings. Many of the Source 
scriptures for these texts are also available in 
English, but I won't spend any more time with this now 
unless the need becomes evident. Of course in addition to
the source texts, there exist many commentaries and 
supportive texts that explain in more detail these 
hatha yoga practices. 

Again I agree that the purpose is not to conform to a 
pose, but rather to discover the inner [innate] wisdom as the
guide. Here asking for  guidance is not an external 
asking [like asking a separate teacher, channeling an 
external spirit guide, deva, or "entity" in the sense of 
separation] but rather to establish and bring forth this 
intimate relationship with Source from the inside out. 
Thus the books, the teachings, and the teachers should 
support [rather than subvert this process of self 
realization] so if the books or "words" help clarify the 
process, then use them and if they confuse or disempower, 
then you are free to discard them. 

I have found that they have been very helpful to get 
perspective on both this life and in context of human 
history and evolution in general, but I do keep in 
perspective that they were written in a different era 
and culture. In other words, all these texts talk about 
balancing the left and right [upaya] and moving into the 
heart (sushumna] and here doing and listening, will and 
receptivity, consciousness and being, pingala and ida, is not
to be understood as autonomous or exclusive polarities [
unless we stay locked in duality] rather the purpose of 
the practice is to unite the two in sushumna. In these 
texts this same theme is repeated over and over again 
symbolically in many ways. Translated to our culture, which
is over dominant left brain (pingala], in general we need to 
honor the right brain (ida] more in order to establish 
synergistic balance and synchronization (yoga], but that does
not at all mean to throw away the left brain or that we
do not need it. It has nothing to do with extremes or an 
either/or exclusivity or contradiction. Simply they must be
made to come together (in the central channel] and this is 
what functional Hatha Yoga is designed to do. Especially 
in today's imbalanced society, such authentic practice is
very healing (balancing] and empowering. 

"The letter "MA" is for Manas (mind] and the letter "TRA" is for 
prana. By connecting Manas and Prana the yoga is called 
mantra yoga.

By pulling apana vritti upward and prana downward, the 
sum of these two pranas as kundalini enter the middle (
sushumna] nadi and goes into the sky lotus which effects 
the crown completion of Rajayoga.

The letter "HA" stands for Surya (Sun] and the letter THA 
denotes Chandra (Moon]. When Chandra and Surya are brought 
together in a balanced condition, that is called hatha 
yoga."

from the Hatharatnavali, I. 19-21 dated from the 16th or 17th century.

22 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.22
Tasty Post (tympanachus cupido, 7/12/99 3:13:20 PM)

Much to mull and digest here.  Thanks for making all this
handy as well as presenting a recommended approach to 
the material

In casually checking out some of your comments against 
Feuerstein [The Shambhala Encyclopedia of Yoga], I find 
concurrence where the facts are known. Feuerstein points 
out that much research work on the history of Yoga 
remains to be done.

Apparently there is no th sound in spoken Sanskrit, so 
hatha is pronounced hat-ha?

23 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.23
ha (Shakti Das, 7/12/99 3:44:57 PM)

Yes, as far as I know, you are correct, kinda aspirated ha as
in hot hahh, but it's neither my native language nor am I
well trained Sanskrit.

Yes, it's been valuable to study the hey day of yoga and 
tantra (medieval India] as an adjunct in an attempt o see 
what may applicable in my own practice.

And then also to see what a value modern technology has
to offer today. Before Patanjali, there was really very 
little written down on yoga. Can you imagine the work 
involved on writing it down on palm leaves? Then 
distributing it? 

Then later on with hatha yoga, what an impossible chore 
to make a detailed list on how to do all the asanas 
without drawings. 

I give a lot of credit to Erich for all the time that 
he spent (and I know it was considerable] to try to put all
that together in his book with drawings and so forth. 
Can't even imagine what could be close to that on palm 
leaves? 

So much has been lost and the rest has been left to an 
oral tradition. Put that together with the downright 
persecution of tantra, atheistic yoga, and Buddhism by the 
Moghuls and we cab appreciate even more that these 
texts are simply outlines of the practice, but if we do 
our own practice they illuminate it and likewise our 
practice illuminates the teachings. Two way interactive 
mutuality/synchronicity -- A both/and proposition again!

Love

Love

24 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.24
kevin wood (sahaj, 7/13/99 1:26:18 AM)

check

25 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.25
kevin wood (sahaj, 7/13/99 1:27:22 AM)

I asked the adyar bookshop in sydney to order a 
copy of " the original yoga " by shyam ghosh published by 
munshiram manharlal pvt. ltd, new delhi.  That was three 
years ago.  I just recieved 
the book a few weeks ago!!!! That's India for you,
and boy is that efficiency for you from Adyar!
Anyway it contains a translation of the sivasamhita
[which is probably the one that you have donny],
the hatha yoga pradipika and the yoga sutras.
the traslation isn't the best but it will give you
an idea of the traditional Ha - THa yoga, and the
"raja" yoga of patanjali.  The full meaning of these 
scripture requires some tuition by a teacher
from the lineage [which also has disadvantages because of
their own baises].  But I have found the ancient
texts valuable when they confirm [and this happens
often] my own experience through practice.  Some of the 
mysteries might
forever be lost unless we rediscover them by our own 
experime

26 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.26
(Shakti Das, 7/13/99 9:01:59 AM)

Yes, gosh and if you are going back to India soon, I have a
list of books for you to pick up :-)

Much to be said about the book of the heart and that's 
what is so empowering about authentic yoga -- the balance 
of apanaand prana is found in opportunity of each 
breath!

Maybe we are still recovering from the orientation that
we will find "the answer" in a book? Could be because of 
Judeo-Christian -- the bible as indisputable authority or 
even the work of God or it can be because of external 
authoritarianism such as in the disempowering 
educational system or most probably a combination of 
both -- some autocrat, technocrat, aristocrat, priest, or external 
authority figure knows better than "i"?  Maybe this is where 
the authentic guru plays her role in defeating this 
tendency while placing the "disciple" into the authority of
the heart when we realize that this truly authentic 
teacher is no one separate from the heart.

27 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.27
Moving from the Heart versus Compulsion (Shakti Das, 7/13/99 5:06:11 PM)

Often in many top down religious and ideological 
systems, what is feared the most is spontaneity because 
such people do not trust their feelings, fear them, or "think" 
of it as dangerous, troublesome or even evil. They carry 
with them a higher and lower duality of which animal 
and earthly is base and coarse and heaven is equated 
beyond the human animal or its transcendence embracing 
a subtle, refined, and often undifferentiated conception of"
God" -- ultimate attainment being an escape from form and 
embodiment. I find this in both the Hindu dualistic 
systems (and I include most of Vedanta in this category 
even though they claim to be non-dual] as well as in the 
Judeo-Christian traditions which separate heaven from 
earth; while on the other hand, it is especially in the 
tantric yoga and hatha yoga traditions where I find a 
total embrace of the present -- of the embodied form as the
sacred alchemical vessel for the magic of spirit and 
nature to occur. 

In these genuine tantric non-dual systems, there always 
are some similarities:

1] That the macrocosm is available by samayama on the 
microcosm (the whole available in its parts]  -- a sort of 
holographic embrace.

2] That the earth energy must be joined with the sky energy
and that the flow is from the ground up (not top down] thus
not over valuing the intellect over the heart -- or the 
thinking process over the intuition. 

3] But the most important distinction is that there is a 
distinction made between being in the heart and acting 
spontaneously from that center and compulsive behaviour
on the other. 

Thus this type of tantric yoga is based on helping get 
in touch with this inner knowing -- knowing when we are in 
harmony, balance, and centered. It provides tools which are 
readily available (inside] where we can get balanced 
whenever we find ourselves "off"  as well as awareness 
tools to let us know that we are off center in the 
first place. 

For me, this alienantion from the vital instincts and 
natural intuitive abilities became repressed during teh
process of my adult conditioning until I became a 
tightly controlled machine (by the intellect and will] at 
war with the body and nature and at times trying to 
deaden it (as a means of ego conquest]. Once this 
estrangement set in (as an imagined reality], I could not 
differentiate between compulsive action and heart-felt 
action because everything came through this same 
external censor/filter of the logical mind (ego]. Logical 
belief systems didn't help (and sometimes actually made 
things worse. I knew that I was going "out" but didn't have a
clue until I started hatha yoga practices which showed 
me "life" and the awakening process on one hand and 
neuroses, disease, illusory, representational/symbolic "life" on 
the other. It showed this to me not through the intellect, 
not top down, not external in, but inside out and from the 
root up. 

"Here" I was able to finally see these two very different 
directions operate in my life and then I was able to 
chose in a functional way. Concommitent with that choice 
was the ability to discern between heart-felt 
spontaneity and compulsiveness -- I no longer feared the 
natural but was able to start embracing and trusting it
and at the same time I became seduced by compulsive 
behavior less often. 

So shortly after beginning hatha yoga practice (although 
I had studied the philosophy for many years before with
the intellect] I started finding the power to wean myself
from smoking, drinking, drugs, junk food, neurotic and self 
destructive activities, abusive relationships, and knee 
jerk reactivity versus heart felt creative response. 

Looking back at this period of growth and discovery (
almost thirty years ago] I realized that it was simply 
the beginning of the self cultivation and honoring of 
an integrated consciousness which included an 
integrated way of being and the asana, meditation, and 
small pranayama practice that I was doing daily as a 
functional tool that provided accessibility to this 
realm and promised an even increased accessibilty in 
the future. Since then that communion and awareness has 
grown and has been made more contiguous with "self".

So in this sense yoga is for me a powerful 
re-conditioning and recovery tool -- a way of union/reunion 
with "self", with heart, with integrity, with wholeness, and with 
authenticity, with life itself and with its continuation. 
It is not some authoritative top down set of rules, 
religion, or intellectual ego oriented logic which I 
identify with, conform to, or follow; yet at the same time it
enables me to use the intellect in a more viable way 
without contradiction maybe because now I don't feel 
victimized, oppressed, or threatened by it as I once did?

So although yoga must be made into a personalized and 
intimate experience for it to be of any value, it is at 
the same time an ancient tool to come back into vital 
relationship with the organic, authentic, or true Self 
which is timeless and absolute. For me it is a way to 
rest in true non-duality without estranging myself from
the body or planet; yet at the same time without creating
any limitation, attachment, or fear by such an embrace 
being able to embrace the Source and Whole in each of 
its parts as a natural extension of this  continuum 
which (for me] is yoga.

Here I am so grateful to have been exposed to this this
process.

28 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.28
earthworm (earthworm, 7/16/99 10:05:33 AM)

One of the topics that came up during the Gary Kraftsow
weekend is related to the question of the topic, "What is 
yoga."

Gary is absolute in his attitude that yoga is not a 
religion.  He says that where religions like Chrisianity, 
Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam are the paths to God.  Yoga is
akin to the road/highway built to facilitate one's 
journey.  Thus one could easily be a Christian and 
practice yoga.  

It is also the case that each religion has it's own "
infrastructure" meant to help one on their path. 

I think Gary's is a valuable perspective.  Georg 
Feuerstein seems to have a similar view, calling yoga a "
psycho-spiritual technology".

I find it challenging to separate the "practices" that aid 
one on their path to God from the "intention" of being on a
path to God.  It seems to me that the technology known as
yoga has been developed with a particular cosmological/
theological view in mind?  People who similarly see 
cosmology would be more drawn to yoga than people who 
do not share that view.

I hear teachers talk about how asana is a very good 
starting point for those unfamiliar with yoga.  On the 
one hand, I understand the desire to share with others, 
that we have found to be helpful to ourselves.  On the 
other hand, I detect a subtle sort of attempt on the part
of the various yoga communities to get people to join 
their "club", which is something I think we have to be 
vigilant about avoiding.  Anything that smacks of "clique"
ishness or "club"ness is going to be vulnerable to lots of 
justified and unjustified criticism.

I like Joseph Campbell's view that in this fast moving 
time, where the old myths don't seem as relevant, each of 
us needs to find a way to 

1.  open ourselves to the dimensions of mystery;  
2.  develop an awareness of cosmology;  
3.  develop an ethical framework of how to be a society;  
4.  live the fullness of "human".  

It seems like yoga as a technology can help us with 
number four.  Yoga as a technology doesn't directly 
address numbers one, two and three.  For some folks, Erich's 
teaching to ask for guidance (a.k.a. "traffic helicopter" metaphor) 
may address number one.  

Any thoughts??

Gena

29 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.29
earthworm (earthworm, 7/16/99 10:32:09 AM)

My preferred view of reality is that it is both dual 
and non-dual.  Those religions/mythologies that come from 
the view of nature as dual are associated more so with 
one type of society.  The mythologies that have a non/dual 
view are associated with very different societies.  

Here is what i see as the clincher.  If you hold a 
non-dual view, then you cannot dismiss an expression of 
that unity in creation as dual parts, night/day, good/bad, male/
female, right/wrong, sky/earth, head/heart.  To dismiss duality as a 
view is to uncreate creation.  Unity without duality has 
no night or day, no male or female.  I think that one can 
acknowledge the value of a unity point of view without 
disparaging the dual point of view and the societies 
that come from it.  Each way brings its own perspective.  
Frankly, I appreciate that there is a culture that has 
brought forth anaesthesia, eyeglasses, antibiotics, 
vaccinations, latex, electricity, modern medicine.  If I am in 
a car accident please do not take me to the aryurvedic 
physician, take me to the emergency room.  It is not that I
dread death, but that I believe that I and everyone else 
deserves the best chance to "do our dharma" whether 
facilitated through yoga, aryurveda, or modern medicine, or 
whatever. 

namas te, gena

30 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.30
Bob Cox (tympanachus cupido, 7/16/99 7:08:41 PM)

I've just returned [10PM last night] from Albuquerque. The New 
Mexico part of this extraordinarily beautiful journey 
was after a rain at that glorious low sun angle part of
the day - the time when the Land Of Enchantment provokes 
a feeling of enlightenment that astounds the senses; 
azure skies, the finest cottony clouds, smells of wet sage, 
pinoñ, juniper & cedar; the feel of warm damp earth; the 
lingering taste of chile and the aural memory of the 
cadence and lilt of the northern NM patois.

I slowed enough to fully indulge all of this while 
considering just what you've addressed here, Gena.

Is yoga "merely" a tool of self discovery and mind-body- 
spirit maintenance? Or is it a spiritual framework, a 
lifestyle, a context for understanding? 

I'm coming around to the point of view that yoga offers
you whatever path you need to express your particular 
emerging form of consciousness, as long as you don't 
impose any expectations [intent is a delicate matter here], 
remain open to the revelations and embrace the 
opportunity for creativity. 

At its simplest is is a flow device - a connection to the
divine spark of creativity for the evolution of the 
self. 

Does it need more than simple awareness in the play of 
pose, breath and reflection? Well, I'd say its best not to 
overcomplicate it - big danger of expectations and missed
opportunity. I hang in the tire in the corner with the 
sign [kindly not consider me to be talking just 2nd chakra 
here], 

"Make yoga like you make love - make love like you make 
yoga." 


 

I also took the opportunity to stop at the Kagyu Mila 

Guru Stupa

which has been constructed by some of the 
Northern NM Tibetan Buddhists in honor of the 
meditation teacherHerman Rednick who taught at El Rito 
on the west side of the Sangre de Christo range. 

The imposition of this structure on the deeply [and 
tragically] Catholic landscape has always amused me - right
there in the shadow of the Blood of Christ range it is. 
The lighting was perfect and I hope to soon share with 
you all pictures of this marvelous bit of irony.

Herman Rednick reminds me of Sheldrake and his take on 

Angels

.  Sheldrake [who I have come to appreciate via a 
recommendation from his good friend Terence McKenna] has 
said:

When I was at Cambridge I was very conscious of the 
great limitations of biological theory. Although I 
enjoyed doing research and teaching biology there, I 
became increasingly aware that the mechanistic theory 
of nature was a very limited way of looking at things. It
didn't correspond to the fullness of what living things
were doing. Just grinding them up and isolating enzymes 
and so on tells you something about organisms, but it 
doesn't tell you how they relate to each other in 
societies, how they behave in the wild, and that kind of 
thing. All of that perpetually eludes this reductionistic
kind of science.

Then, to find out more about tropical botany, I spent a 
year in Malaysia, where I worked at the University of 
Malaysia. This was in 1968. On my way there, I traveled through India
for three months. That had a huge impact on me. I suddenly 
saw this astonishing culture which I found completely 
fascinating, which had riches and depths beyond anything 
I had ever been taught about in England.

I got interested in meditation and when I got back to 
England I did Transcendental Meditation for a while. Then
I got into other forms of Indian meditation. I didn't 
want to go on with the narrow, reductionist science at 
Cambridge, and the scientific community there was so 
committed to this narrow view. So I found a job in India, 
at an international agricultural institute, where I could
do real science, working on Indian crops, that might 
potentially be useful, and at the same time live in India, 
which was where I wanted to be. I spent four or five 
years living and working in Hyderabad, at the 
International Crops Research Institute for the Semiarid
Tropics, where I was the crop physiologist. 

During this time I had the opportunity to find out 
about Sufism, because of the Sufis in Hyderabad, and about 
Hindu philosophy. Gurus came through giving discourses 
and I visited various ashrams. But I actually found 
myself most drawn to ordinary Hinduism: the pujas, the 
people's practice of making offerings to sacred plants 
in the mornings, the greeting of the sun in the morning, 
the pilgrimages to temples and sacred places, the holy 
trees, holy rats, holy cows, and holy snakes, and that kind of 
thing. I just liked the sacralization of nature and the 
earth which I found there. I'd gone there interested in 
the higher reaches of Hindu philosophy and meditation 
and actually found myself drawn to what most 
sophisticated Hindus despised - the folk practices of 
Hinduism. That drew me the most, and that I found most 
attractive because it involved a kind of sacralization 
of the earth and a different attitude toward nature and
matter and life.

This was quite a shock to me at first. But I was 
intrigued by it and it played for me a very important 
role in giving me a broader view of things. Then I 
realized that I couldn't be a Hindu because I wasn't 
Indian, and it would be ridiculous to go back to England 
dressed up in Indian clothes and pretending to be 
Indian. I visited a few gurus and asked their advice on 
my spiritual quest. And one or two of them said something
I never expected them to say: "You come from a Christian 
background, you should find a Christian path. All paths 
lead to God and that's your path because that's your 
ancestral path." This actually came to make a lot of sense 
to me. 

Then later, I met Father Bede Griffiths, who was my main 
teacher in India, and I lived in his ashram for a year 
and a half. He was a Benedictine monk who lived in India 
and followed many aspects of Indian spirituality while 
remaining a Westerner with Western views. He was a bridge
for me between these two cultures and helped me 
reconnect with the mystical traditions of Christianity, 
the core of the Christian tradition which I hadn't 
really heard about as a child. So that, for me, was the way 
that I returned to a Western way of looking at things 
after a total of seven years in India. It took me a long 
way, going through that Indian path, and coming back. 

Then, when I was living in India, I became very friendly 
with Krishnamurti, and later I saw quite a lot of him. I 
found him very refreshing. But there were some problems 
with his approach. He was very good at asking questions, 
but he wasn't very good at suggesting answers, and I 
think that a lot of people got quite lost as a result 
of his teachings. But I had a lot of fun being with him 
and I liked him a lot personally. India played an 
important part in all this, and my time there, which 
combined doing Western-style science with living in 
India, was for me the right solution at the time. It meant 
I could do both. It provided a way of being in both 
worlds. 

Strikes me that Erich was not one of those who got lost. 

I've always known that my spiritual path was not anyone
else's.  Our paths may cross [they seem to here, often] and they 
may run parallel for a while and it is sometimes 
productive to enjoy the other's perspective, but finally 
it is back to your own drummer.

31 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.31
earthworm (earthworm, 7/16/99 9:57:44 PM)

"...the time when the Land Of Enchantment provokes 
a feeling of enlightenment that astounds the senses; 
azure skies, the finest cottony clouds, smells of wet sage, 
pinoñ, juniper & cedar; the feel of warm damp earth; the 
lingering taste of chile and the aural memory of the 
cadence and lilt of the northern NM patois...."

MMMMMMmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!

"...Does it need more than simple awareness in the play of 
pose, breath and reflection? Well, I'd say its best not to 
overcomplicate it - big danger of expectations and missed
opportunity."

I agree.

I have tried to dance to many a drum and am better for 
it and I find that my path somehow belongs in a 
synthesis of East and West, a path I began to explore in 
college.  I very much appreciate both views in the 
interview, Sheldrake and Fox, even though they use "very" 
different language to describe the same phenomenon.  This
exploration of the many ways to talk about the same 
truths has always seemed like a really worthwhile 
adventure to me.  This is why the East/West dialogue, where 
there is mutual respect and admiration for the other, is 
so astonishingly wonderful for me.  That is the long way 
of saying thanks for the angel interview.

I have been around the Christian church enough to know 
that the priests and reverends mostly are afraid of 
other religions like Buddhism, Hinduism.  It's the us vs. 
them, the right vs. wrong mentality.  It's the club approach.  
I tried to find my way in the Christian path [mainstream] 
and found myself labeled as heretical [for suggesting "How 
about saying I/you are God"].  I discovered the Christian 
mystical tradition as well but it just wasn't enough, 
then.  Not being in a position to go to a monastery, I 
returned to my own peculiar practice of solitary yoga 
to keep the home fires burning.

Where I waver the most is in a concern about the 
children.  Fox's views are interesting.  I'm not sure what 
I think.  I guess we are experimenting.

"You come from a Christian 
background, you should find a Christian path. All paths 
lead to God and that's your path because that's your 
ancestral path." This actually came to make a lot of sense 
to me. "

To me too, and I've heard this from other spiritual 
teachers.  It's worth strong consideration, if I can find 
the way through the dogma mines.  It looks like a painful
road and yet perhaps it is the one I will go down, yoga 
tools/framework in hand?  It is thought provoking.

Thanks, Bob.
Gena

32 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.32
earthworm (earthworm, 7/16/99 10:07:33 PM)

(Erased by earthworm at Jul 16 1999 10:07PM)

33 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.33
Bob Cox (tympanachus cupido, 7/17/99 12:25:06 PM)

(Erased by tympanachus cupido at Jul 17 1999 12:36PM)

34 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.34
Bob Cox (tympanachus cupido, 7/17/99 12:36:04 PM)

Couple things grabbed me in the Fox/Sheldrake interview:

Sheldrakes'

"I believe that angels influence humans through their 
creativity, human thoughts and actions. Traditionally, it's 
called "inspiration," which literally means "spirit breathed 
into you." I still think that's a good way of putting it. 

which has a yogic quality about it.

Fox's:

"....what we are really craving is that sense of
holy terror in our consciousness."
 which is very like William Blake [check his paintings of
ethereal beings].

Another guy who used to hang at El Rito (the village of 
El Rito is beyond modest - more like not there) was Jim 
DeKorne who wrote Psychedelic Shamanism. He quotes the 
Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

Now if a man worships another diety, thinking the diety 
is one and he another, he does not know. He is like a beast
for the Devas. For verily, as many beasts nourish a man, thus
does every man nourish the Devas. If only one beast is 
taken away, it is not pleasant; how much more when many are
taken! Therefore it is not pleasant to the Devas that men
should know this.


DeKorne calls these "angels," archons - intelligences existing 
in the imaginal realm in bodies consisting of thought 
and feeling. They seek to maintain themselves like any 
other differentiated being and will say or do anything 
to gain our attention and worship. Rather like we treat 
beasts and plants [which arguably become conscious by 
becoming us - kind of a unilateral path to samadhi].

My sole personal direct experience with this kind of 
encounter was a meeting with Yahweh when he appeared to
me [as a voice and a "vague" presence] in a trance. He told me I 
was made in his image and it was time for me to get in 
line. I told him it was time for him to beat it and he 
did without further discussion.

The tykes that inhabit the world made visible by the 
tryptamines are more impish and perhaps mediate the 
intercourse between "angels" and "demons" in which we sometimes
find ourselves entangled. Or maybe they're just feeding 
on us too.

What does yogi donny think about these abstract 
intelligences that flit about the path to the 
experience of oneness?

35 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.35
(Shakti Das, 7/17/99 12:48:34 PM)

Bob,

What a beautiful journey full of heart and integrity 
that you shared, inspiring links, (nice picture too!]. The links 
inspiring (Good combination that of McKenna and Sheldrake] 
now if we could get McKenna talking with Fox and them 
both talking with Grof, and... that would bridge much! What book 
is your Sheldrake quote from? Fr. Bede Griffiths passed on 
about 7 years ago. Do you know if Shantivanam is still 
alive and under what circumstances?

Who is it that said; "Make yoga like you make love - make 
love like you make yoga"? Seems to this observer, to be 
mature advice! 

Heart and Integrity! Thanks for sharing!

36 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.36
Heh (tympanachus cupido, 7/17/99 1:19:06 PM)

'Twas IM [or perhaps an Archon fart] that inspired that 
line. Drivin' fast [2 or four wheels], makin' love and makin' 
yoga - three meditation modes that demand full attention; 
if you can't give it, you probably should be doing 
something else.

I believe the whole gang of McKenna, Grof, Sheldrake and 
Fox have been together at Esalen. A dear friend of mine 
took me to a spot overlooking the ocean near Esalen 
where he wants his ashes deposited [I've promised to do a
better job than Walter provided Donny in the Big 
Lebowski]. A Pacific Coast rattler sang to us on the 1/2 mile 
return to the car and it was that day that I adopted 
the totem [or it adopted me] after a lifetime of aversion [
they are a true hazard to kids and dogs in the southern
NM landscape].

My sole exposure to the good friar ["is there such a thing," I 
have to ask?] is through Sheldrake.  Have a look sometime at 
Trialogues At The Edge of The West which features 
Terence, Sheldrake and Ralph Abraham.

Quote is out of the linked interview.

There's some kinda magic about the El Rito area [just 
north of Questa]; be sure to stop if you happen by that way. 
DH Lawrence spent some time just south of there when he
was part of Mabel Dodge Luhan's esoteric community.

37 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.37
earthworm (earthworm, 7/17/99 1:52:53 PM)

Here is what I have learned about Devas.  Mind you, I have 
no personal experience of the Devic Kingdom.  All that I 
know comes from reading of the Esoteric Literature and 
talking to others who do experience it.

1. The Devas are the "builders" of the etheric [suble body] world.  
There are plant devas, animal devas and human devas and 
so on.

2.  These Devas are on an evolutionary journey of their own. 
They are known to be impish and tricksters.

3.  Angels are Devas who have been "promoted".  

[This stuff sounds like Sci. Fi..]

4.  Ultimately it will be important for all humans to build
the etheric "bridges" to the devic, animal and plant kingdoms
and develop a cooperative relationship with them.

It's just more candy to suck on.

Cuz until I have some actual experience with the Devic/
Angelic world, I put these teachings in the realm of "
hypothesis".

Hey Bob, howdya' know it was Yahweh?  Good response.  You had
your shit-detector on.

Gena

38 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.38
Deja voo (Shakti Das, 7/17/99 2:45:00 PM)

Bob; Our posts were about 10 minutes apart -- needless to say 
that yours "slipped in" before mine (while I was typing to 
respond to your previous one]. 

As you know, I started studying both Western mysticism, 
magic, alchemy, theosophy extensively in the mid-sixties as
well as Eastern. Although I found the entire study useful
in order to provide background to man's history and 
psychic proclivities, the only Western study that I 
became truly involved in was Western alchemy (similarly 
to Jung].

Basically I found "spiritism" to be based on more shaky 
ground (separateness and most of its problems being 
control, fear, greed, jealousy, protection, security, and other 
issues were more prevalent -- although the healing elements
of "spiritism" made sense]. Basically alchemy appeared very 
yogic -- as it were concerned about the linking -- and I felt 
that I wanted to focus on that process -- not having the 
energy to divert to these other avenues. Only in 1971 did I start
hatha yoga (asanas, pranayama, bandha, and mudra] and shamanistic
studies which added the essential and viable balance 
that I had been seeking.

Now I do not wish to take a position of being critical 
of another path (by stating my insensitivity or ignorance
of its value], because that would probably only invite a 
conflict/defender to arise and I do not want to waste my 
time (or the "others" time with that]. 

To answer your questions, most certainly without being 
arrogantly anthropocentric there are many intelligent 
forces that exist outside the human species and mental 
functions. These intelligent energetics are only 
perceived as a threat by those who hold onto issues of 
control and self limitation. Mankind has not classified, 
analyzed, or come into harmonious relationship with all 
these "other" forces in any one cosmology, theology, religious, 
mythological or psychological system that I know (
although many have tried]. I doubt that this could ever be 
successful in that type of framework (can the bathtub 
hold the ocean?]

The major stumbling block to this  systemization is 
that it is too often self limited i.e., based on the 
anthropocentric mass illusions (maya] and thus usually "does 
not compute". This is another way of saying that from my 
understanding, my own understanding is very limited and 
small as compared to that big main frame of which "I" am 
but a network node (which one day will be unplugged], but if "i" 
understand my position in relationship to the whole 
network then my observation will include the variances 
of my relative position and correct for any such error. 
Hence if I start to enter into the holographic like 
world of morphogentic resonance (and I do not mean to 
suggest that the two are exactly the same, but I believe 
them to point to this "greater both/and whole" or universal/
infinite Mind], I can "know" without the dominance of 
reductionist/analytical mind and interact in harmony 
through the balance and integration of the postulation 
of any independent separate entity (that exists truly 
separate] as an illusion on one hand and the embarce of 
my true nature  on the other hand as defining one 
greater all inclusive indigenous process. In other words 
if we define our "Self" as the entire Universe -- as in 
intimate interconnected contact with it -- microcosm/
macrocosm linked, heaven/earth, crown/muladhara, pingala/ida, and so 
forth (you know the rap by now] this fundamental "assumption 
of yoga" precludes any separate, fragmented, or even 
corrupted spirits or angels, but rather allows for ALL of
them (being all inclusive/wholistic and non-exclusive as it
were]. Some may call this heresy or even ego mania/meglomania, 
but it actually requires absolute humility (from what 
little I can see of it].   

We can of course talk about manmade spirits (sometimes 
created by magicians, witches, shamans, groups, and even 
invoked by priests and yogis as visualization and deity
practices} some of these exist only in the mind of the 
individual while others may indeed (like the force] extend 
into the world of cause and effect. i.e., the relative world 
where karma operates. Indeed belief and intention can 
conjure up these psycho-energetic forces, and they can 
exist outside our own fantasies (although often they are 
not so empowered]. 

Indeed I once learned some Huna healing techniques that
also included empowering certain elementals as aids in 
healing and protection, but in general unless they are 
very intelligently designed they can wind up sapping 
the practitioner's energy more than aiding in one's 
process of self realization and liberation from karma. So
in general except under the guidance of a trusted guru (
which is in itself a path that is not without potential
iatrogenic pitfalls of which we have already spoken 
about at length] or else in high yoga tantra once we are 
aware of our own vital energies (and are thus only then 
capable of taking responsibility] are not advisable paths. 

Certainly black magic is never advised (if one is not to 
divert one's energy and karma from ultimate liberation -- 
and here we go back to the elimination of kleshas]. 
Magicians, witches, and shamans for millennia have 
attempted to either subjugate or deceive devas, spirits, 
angels, the life and natural forces, dragons, etc., into their "
causes" or have otherwise petitioned, sacrificed, attempted 
to enlist them as allies, propitiated them, etc. Again as 
long as one knows what they are doing (karma is 
inscrutable] and the actions are conscious in accordance 
with the highest intention, then no harm will follow. We 
are all in this together right? Here again in order to 
prevent disaster the tantric Buddhists require the 
training of the bodhicitta (enlightened mind] as a 
pre-requisite for advanced tantra yoga.

Again magic or spiritism is not a big part of my path, 
other than to say that I have been practicing shamanism
as a healing path and various tantric yoga practices (in 
the Tibetan Buddhist tradition] that uses some of these 
elements combined with mantra, breath, visualization, chakras, 
endocrine substances, mudras, intent, prayer, offerings, etc as a
spiritual discipline], not that I recommend them to others 
nor do I really feel that they are necessary]. 

Tryptamine invoked and other altered states where we 
are reminded of the non-three dimensional and 
non-anthropocentric REALITY (as Sheldrake nicely 
describes and which the yogis call Turiya] does invoke 
one fact -- that we are not alone. 

I also agree with Sheldrake and McKenna that mankind 
co-evolved interdependently with the rest of the planet
over millions of years (mother] and that these mind 
altering plants were always available as a "medicine" to 
those shamans who listened to this infinite mind -- 
wholistic intelligence, i.e., who were not cut off from this 
interdependent organic evolutionary and natural process, 
thus tryptamine or other plants were part of a living 
spirituality which took mankind out of his linear three
dimensional realm (which is often locked into stasis by a
dominating left brain/logical/intellectual imposition] so 
that he/she could commune with UNIVERSAL REALITY without 
bias or prejudice. The intimate acknowledgement, communion, 
and actual identification with this process  of this 
indigenous and evolutionary process is what I often 
call Ma, but strangely enough I also call it the 
realization of Sunyata -- emptiness. I believe this is where 
effective swadhyaya eventually leads. Here the right use 
of herbs in a shamanic setting as a means toward 
healing, communion, spiritual experience, consciousness 
expansion, and so used intelligently has been considered 
to be of value by many people throughout time. Man's 
artificial disconnection from nature and the natural 
world has been paid for with a great price to every 
body involved and I for one welcome in a new era where 
this partnership of natural and viable mutuality will 
merge as skillful means (upaya] merging wisdom and 
compassion to its highest potential! Time is short (for me 
today -- being caught in linearity and stress], so I hope that 
this and the last part does not create confusion, but 
perhaps entertaining a bit of the mystery (as a healing 
potential] is healthy?  

I often go further than most (:-] by saying that through this 
altered state Universal Truth and Universal Reality is 
always available to us, it is blocked by false and 
limited beliefs] held together by obscurations, karma, fear, 
and the rest of the kleshas]. Thus "normally" I find even the 
mention that there may exist "truth" at all and especially 
an objective "truth" to raise red flags -- whose truth yours or
mine"?  This too often provokes a severe reaction by those 
who believe in only the bias/prejudice of their own 
delusion that is gleaned from their own "understanding" of 
their fragmented, non-interconnected, and 
non-interdependent reality and existence to be the "
structure" that they identify with (and hence often feel 
threatened to any thing that may contradict it].

That is why in Buddhism, they say that there are two 
truths relative and absolute --samsara and nirvana, and in 
Buddhist tantra they say that there exist nirvana in 
samsara and samsara in nirvana (which is usually 
translated as non-dual or tantric truth]. Does this sound 
too religious to people here?  But I have been warned by 
past teachers (and my experience has born it out] that some
of these ideas are quite advanced (as compared to the 
ordinary inclinations and confused "mindsets" and beliefs, 
that many  hold onto dearly] so that to avoid these 
undesired "reactions" tantra yoga must be taught in stages 
so that one realization will make room for the other. But
I not being very hierarchical in propensity often do 
not conform to such structure, but here have been dues to
pay in this regard as well, and thus I pray for 
enlightenment more sincerely. 

Now with all the above tucked away (very neatly] (:-] I will share 
with you some thing about "spirits" that defies my 
understanding (to an extent] or is at least at or beyond 
its next edge.

Lately I have been aware of a "psychic entity" (excuse the 
term]. It was first observed as an "outside disturbance" and I 
was having trouble canceling it out. It disturbed my 
meditation and dreams for over a week, until just last 
night I invited it in, i incorporated it into myself (as 
part of me], and this included laughing at it (because there 
was a considerable element of fear as "you" may imagine]. As I 
laughed the fear dissolved and the more I was able to "
understand" that the "apparition" was in the "bigger non-dual 
wholistic sense" a disowned part of "me".

I will leave this at that, but want to say again Bob, 
thanks for the Integrity and great heart!  I won't dare a
spell check on this one!     

Namaste!

39 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.39
Questa (Shakti Das, 7/17/99 2:55:10 PM)

Ahhhh lived on a river downstream from a high glacier 
lake (or were there a series of high glacier lakes?] in a 
pine/log cabin North of Questa for a few weeks! I go back 
to that place often (in my mind] even now. 

Been wanting to find time to visit again (and keep in 
touch with old friends] whose addresses and phone numbers
have long been lost and whose dusty roads probably have
been forgotten by the dust accumulated on the brain.

I remember sitting all day looking at the river and 
although the snow had not melted I was not cold in 
short sleeves (the sun being so warm] and actually got tan (
was actually uhh returning from ... well that's another story.] 

Sarva Mangalam!

40 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.40
More Pictures Please (if you got "Time" ] (Shakti Das, 7/17/99 2:56:23 PM)

41 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.41
Uh Huh (crotalus, 7/17/99 9:24:44 PM)

>>[This stuff sounds like Sci. Fi..]<

That's what I used to think. The universe is stranger 
than we can imagine.

Devas are complicated - yup. Some we make - some say they 
make us...

So, Gena how do you propose to stick your toe safely into
this world? Or how will you recognize you're there? Rumi 
sez whirling will take you there. Osho sez dynamic 
meditation will do it. 

"Send us reports, Bill. Include the tasty bits."

42 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.42
kevin wood (sahaj, 7/18/99 12:36:04 AM)

THe devas could also be seen as archetypal energy
forces that are inside us as well as outside as
embodied or disembodied entities.  They serve
the purpose of mirroring ourselves to ourselves in 
order to
move beyond into higher states.  They also have
no problem inprisioning us for as long as we are
unwilling to understand the lessons.  THere lesson
once learned is the extasy of transformation into
a higher vibration and a new life.  I have had
some very wild experiences with beings that were
embodied in physical form "channeled " through
the person even without them knowing that it was
happening.  I was watching a program on Hitler the
other day and I realized that this was what he was
doing, becoming a vehicle for some very powerful negative
asuric [demonical] forces.

We aren't tuned to these things in the west but
they do exist.

43 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.43
Well then... (crotalus, 7/18/99 1:33:20 AM)

..you know the Sangres. I have stood atop their highest 
summits. The southernmost fourteener is Culebra {endless 
false summits, just like a snake} and Little Bear-Blanca 
tower over the open basin that terminates the high wide
valley marked at one end by Questa and at the other by 
Fort Garland, where the notorious Kit [not our mum Kit, who 
is getting an Erich fix, but Carson] was once commander. 

The Sangres are my favorite part of the Rockies. The 
Crestone group in particular is a boon. I've summited the
Needle in Winter and nearly died there one night with 
SuZ as recounted some where around here. Only in scuba 
diving does one get closer to [and more alone in] nature. 
Mountains and deep water, viewed from a minus hundred 
feet or so, create that transcendent altered state 
matched only in ineffability by those occasioned by 
other entheogens - breathwork for instance.

Your cosmology seems an inclusive one. Embraces evil I'd 
say, without endorsing it.  Seems a practical foundation 
for exploring consciousness and I'm pleased to hear 
it's working. 

Making any sense of the hyperspatial possibilities is 
daunting. Interacting constructively with them appears a 
possibility, but it may come from hubris. Some ya just 
can't do - some drugs are also like that I hear. I've heard
some testimony from you about datura which is a 
shamanic substance of the highest merit but manageable 
by nearly no one not a shaman or in the final stages of
apprenticeship. I have it on good authority, though I 
cannot personally vet it, that some of the shamanistic 
bent do choose the dark side which is apparently an 
irreversible move of karmic fulfullment.

Gena asks how do I know it was Yahweh? Well, its probably 
prejudice - the reminder that "I was made in his image" 
seemed a clue and he had this "I'm the Boss" voice that 
those old Hebrews liked to invoke.

The "psychic entity" diagnosis sounds right to me. We all 
have vays of manifesting dusty attics that give even 
the karma kola folks pause. Must have posted this link to
my fav story along these lines.  I really admire the 
Shulgins for publishing this account.

More pics for sure - the light was that magic stuff that 
knocks you on your can to wipe the tears from your eyes. 
Never was the illusion grander though I've had the joy 
of its equal a time or two. Peak experiences often seem 
to be visual or visually filed. 

I recall a deep snow backpack into the East side of the
Sangres late in the day that provided such a moment. The 
two of us had dumped our 50# packs to blow after crossing 
South Colony Creek on XC mountaineering skis after the 
first long uphill pull. The sky was that deep Colorado 
cobalt winter blue with a few high cotton balls for 
punctuation. The sun was well behind the ridge as it was 
about 4PM. Suddenly the sky darkened, the clouds turned gold 
and the snow picked up this ethereal yellow cast - only 
the murmur of the brook beneath the snow marked the 
moment.  Lasted about 45 seconds and caused us both to begin 
weeping and squirming about as if we had indeed been 
touched by the hand of god. I suspect even the torpid 
trout awakened for this transcendent moment.

Hope I didn't put any of you off with the Naked Lunch 
movie link - the pics all finally loaded and I notice 
some of them have some punch. The movie is a hoot though 
I guess maybe you have to be into mugwump jism to 
appreciate it. 

Burroughs was a bad man; shot his wife in Mexico and 
managed to get away with it; long time junkie and, to my 
taste, a bad writer. He did say that "when doing business 
with a religious son of a bitch, get it in writing." Seems 
like good advice. 

Leary tells of bringing Bill some shrooms with Ginsburg
when he was in the Zone [Tripoli I think]. Bill had a really 
bad ride, just like he did on yage in South America [as 
reported in the Yage Letters].  This is not a foolproof 
diagnostic but telling I think.

Yeah - I think you have the right perspective, Kevin. They 
can be part of the veil.

44 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.44
Or our higher self (Shakti Das, 7/18/99 3:10:50 AM)

Or our disowned power. In this sense lady kundalini is 
the dragon, serpent, Beowulf, the flying dragon of China, etc., 
while meting our shadow or dark side may just be facing
our own disassociated fears. 

Also agree with Kevin, that many of the pantheon are 
aspects of Self and whose mythology tells 
psycho-history. In the beginning phases of Buddhist 
tantric yoga, the practices are designed to balance out 
negativities and other such imbalances of the kleshas 
through generating and then identifying with the 
corresponding remedial healing energy as a deity. This is
also what many mantras are made out of.  

So there are many possibilities (some negative and some 
positive] and I will define the "positive" as the ones that 
heal, liberate, and awake while the "negative" are the 
practices based on the kleshas, fear, control, greed, and the 
rest of the ego fears/wants. Won't go into details here, but 
I remember a great movie made in Germany about angels 
and their interaction with humankind -- had that American/
Italian detective in it-- can't think of the name, but it
became a cult classic so to speak with a recent remake 
that supposedly flopped. Ahh well...

My experience is that children accept the world of 
angels much more easily than adults 
We have become conditioned that there are two worlds (
duality] -- life and death -- alpha and the omega, but in Reality 
there is only the one continuum which is Unborn and 
Never ending. We chose (or rather have "learned"] to see it as 
the world before life (alpha] and after death (omega] but what 
if we could embrace this continuity NOW. Is this not the 
sacralization of life that Fox and Sheldrake were 
trying to resurrect and is this not the task of dream 
yoga and bardo work as well?

Ahh well--
Namaste!

45 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.45
Synchronistically (tympanachus cupido, 7/18/99 9:38:34 AM)

"Are you a God?" they asked the Buddha. 
"No," he replied.
"Are you an angel, then?"
"No."
"A saint?"
"No."
"Then what are you?"
Replied the Buddha, 
"I am awake."
  --Houston Smith


dimitri has revamped his splash page and has brought 
some good stuff to the fore by the despised Dr. Leary

46 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.46
More Leary (tympanachus cupido, 7/18/99 9:57:28 AM)

Experimental Production of Neurosomatic 

Electricity Between Two Self-Actualized
Hedonists

- doubt you really need the 
MDMA for this effect. The henna hand is 
from the piece.

47 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.47
Detective Columboo Knows (Shakti Das, 7/18/99 10:53:58 AM)

48 of 87 Yoga Conference.21.48
Rainbow Bridge (Shakti Das, 7/18/99 12:02:45 PM)

The angel movie was an attempt at yoga in a sense where
there was an attempt to integrate the two worlds (
embodied and temporal world with the timeless but 
disembodied realm of the angels]. ANyone remember the name 
of the movie (it was directed by Wm Winger]?   

Tryptamine probably bridges the left/right brain delemma 
in a deep way or else short cuts the interference to 
this natural process? It's always been like going home (
visiting homebase "again", transpersonal in turiya, and the 
Great Continuum (whence I came and where I am going but 
HERE I never really left] while the reports of "bad" trips 
are experiences of "alienation". Won't elaborate any here, but 
just to say that the inner alche